No, the Gagne is Not Always Greener

Something to distract from tonight's unpleasantness in Cincinnati:

The Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel reports that Doug Melvin has no plans to unseat Eric Gagne as Brewers closer. A quick comparison:

G IP
H
K
BB
ERA S
BS
Kerry Wood 14 15 10 13 3 4.80 4 3
Eric Gagne 16 14.2 15 17 10 6.14 9 5


Gagne also has a WHIP of 1.7 and opponents are hitting .382 against him. Wood's numbers are 0.87, .189.

And the Brewers don't have Carlos Marmol as a Plan B.

Comments

This might be ignorant of me, but I really don't see Gange turning things around much this year, either. Sure his numbers will settle down a little, but this isn't Mariano Rivera having a trademark bad April, this Eric Gange who looks out of shape and not sharp at all.

Gagne = Glendon Rush with goggles

Not to mention the $10MM paycheck.

Speaking of closers, did anyone ever figure out why LaTroy Hawkins sucked? His stuff was always good and his slider had good bite. It was puzzling.

David Weathers can go in and easily get guys out with mediocre 82 MPH sinkers, but LaTroy Hawkins gets lit up on sharp 84 MPH sliders. Location & walks were always a problem, but still...

Maybe LaTroy lost confidence in the slider -- my memory is that he threw mostly 92-94 mph fastballs without great movement or location. Hitters sat on the fastball and eventally hammered it.

This is all well and good, except we haven't had many leads to save lately, losing 8 of the last 11.

Come back when there is more sample size with our guys, then we can have something to really compare.

David Weathers: "...David Weathers can go in and easily get guys out..."

Uh, not really. 4.32 ERA 2+ WHIP

Don't think this is "easily out" stuff for a short guy.

Not well liked in Cinci. Sucked here for the most part, too.

Weathers had 45 saves over '06-'07, with a 3.50-ish ERA. That's probably what was being referenced.

Why don't you include Gagne's '05/06 stats?

Because I was talking about Weathers. The comment was he easily gets guys out, and you disagreed. Not only was my response not about Gagne, neither was your original comment. So why would I reference Gagne?

If you are referencing "old stats" (which was not made clear in the comment that Weathers "easily gets guys out..."), and the original post is comparing Wood to Gagne, why not compare Gagne's old stats? David Weathers was not a topic of the lead submission by Cubnut, either. What's the difference?

"Whatever."

I was making a guess as to what the Weathers comment was about. It still has nothing to do with Gagne. Sorry you can't see that.

Sorry you can't see my point either. You commented on Weathers (where the poster did not say "when"; I brought up old stats of Gagne.

Like I said: "Whatever."

Anyway, perhaps we could discuss something more meaningful, like what day Mark De Rosa breaks out of his slump?

No, I see your point. But it's not relevant. (Someone help me out here!??!) I was only commenting on your comment about Weathers. It just so happens that the comment was in a blog post about Gagne. Ryno brought up Weathers; you disagreed with his comment; I used old stats to suggest that maybe that's what he was talking about. End 'o subject.

DeRo will come out of it soon.

"DeRo will come out of it soon."

I hope so. OF all our "utility starters". He is my favorite, and generally pretty solid.

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  • Stockpiling young talent isn't only for trading for someone like Chapman though. Even with an elite close winning the World Series is basically a crap shoot so the key is to get the playoffs as much as possible and not just mortgage everything on one year. Once you get there an elite bullpen certainly helps but the playoffs can be won by one hitter or starting pitcher getting hot (Murphy, Molina, Baumgardner) and a closer might not be able to stop that.

    johann 49 sec ago view
  • I'm also not crazy about press convictions. As the police report noted, there were no marks on the lady in question. There's a TMZ link (of course) to her police pictures, as well.

    I think the only way this trade goes real bad is if Cubbery intervenes and Chapman is suddenly bad for some reason.

    Old and Blue 2 min 50 sec ago view
  • I am right there with you closing in on 60.

    I don't care that much about "mortgaging" one player who is not only blocked by two guys, but is not ready to hit the majors for at least a couple years.

    There is no reason why this team, this year, can't have a real shot at something NONE of us have experienced.

    Further, I don't feel that even if they fall short that they have ruined their farm system.

    I have made my opinion clear here, with others, Warren was shit on the Cubs save one spot start.

    The E-Man 1 hour 32 min ago view
  • Trading for Warren, Warren sucking, getting Warren back for Chapman plus 3 prospects, sounds like Revenge of The Yankees on the former Boston executive. Old rivalries never die.

    I pray to the heavens above Chapman doesn't suck for some reason, or he'll be booed out of town faster than a Todd Hundley revival meeting.

    Old and Blue 1 hour 40 min ago view
  • I'm kind of nostalgic for the Schwarber-for-Miller rumors.

    Brick 1 hour 51 min ago view
  • This offseason, after some ridiculous playoff run and Chapman saving every game from here until the end of the postseason striking out 27/9innings, I welcome anyone to quote this thread and call me a dummy: I hate this trade, and my hate is 2 parts Chapman makes this team less likeable and 1 part that's a ridiculous overpay for 30 regular season innings and, at tops, 10 postseason innings. Already hoping they don't extend him.

    Charlie 1 hour 53 min ago view
  • btw...Thanks AZ Phil. I'm really enjoying your take on this trade.

    Cubster 2 hours 15 min ago view
  • I'm a bit disappointed on the Warren experience. Essentially they gave Castro away for crickets (OK, well they signed Zobrist with the Castro salary dump). Otherwise one might look at it as Chapman for Castro and our #1 minors prospect (Torres) + McKinney/Crawford. Seems pricey for a 2 month rental. We will see if this price tag is that steep in a relative way based on the remaining deadline deals for relievers.

    Cubster 2 hours 16 min ago view
  • Yep. One of the great things about this team (in addition to being really good at baseball) was the "likable" factor. Feels a bit different now. Who knows...maybe Chapman will be the king of the dance parties.

    billybucks 2 hours 25 min ago view
  • Here are some possible corresponding minor league moves we might see in the aftermath  of the Chapman trade: 

    SOUTH BEND to MYRTLE BEACH: OF Donnie Dewees and INF Bryant Flete  

    EUGENE to SOUTH BEND: OF Robert Garcia and INF Vimael Machin 

    There is really no reason to replace Billy McKinney at Tennessee because both Chris Coghlan and Jorge Soler are doing their rehab at Tennessee.  

    And there are plenty of pitchers at Iowa. No need to replace Warren at AAA. .  

    Arizona Phil 2 hours 45 min ago view
  • I am 70 years old. The Cubs last played in the World Series in 1945. I was born in 1946. I hate to lose a prospect like Torres, but when the opportunity is there to get that World Series ring, you go for it. This was the idea in stock piling all this young talent. I would like to see Reddick added now and the Cubbies should be done.

    Hagsag 3 hours 15 min ago view
  • I would expect Richard to accept an optional assignment because based on how he's played this season, there is a decent chance that he won't find work elsewhere. Rather stay and potentially get a ring. Same goes for Coghlan since he's struggled mightily this year.

    Edwards should not go down. He's pitched very well and Maddon is very impressed with him. I would expect Grimm to go down for Cahill so he can get back on track (he's pitched better in July, but he's not getting enough appearances).

    chitownmvp01 3 hours 19 min ago view
  • chitownmvp01: Indeed Clayton Richard would seem to be odd man out once Chapman reports, but Richard might accept a minor league assignment if he is promised a return to Chicago on 9/1 when MLB Active List rosters expand (Richard has minor league ioptions left).

    Arizona Phil 3 hours 22 min ago view
  • The only player in the deal that would cause me a second thought is Gleyber Torres.

    McKinney and Crawford are decent prospects but both are redundant/replaceable in the system and Warren was really only a middle-reliever or #6 starter, so to me it's really just Torres for Chapman.

    Arizona Phil 3 hours 42 min ago view
  • There is no Comp pick for players traded mid-season. 2+ months of Chapman is it.

    mbauer 3 hours 45 min ago view
  • to get one of the best you have to give up one/some of your best...but it's a bit painful to watch the system's best prospect walk for any 2-3 month rental, especially one that's not an everyday player.

    crunch 3 hours 47 min ago view