It's Just A Pain in the Neck

Live Long and Prosper.

It's not a good thing for the Cubs when I'm writing all these articles. It means somebody on the team is injured, exploding or a decision on how to use (or not) the disabled list is looming. So I'll keep this maximally short (oxymoron that I am).

Today we finally get some good news and the results from the MRI on DLee shows the same old, same old. Yes, a bulging disc is causing neck and upper back spasms. No, he won't go on the DL. Yes, he'll be ready to play in the next game or so against San Diego at Wrigley Field.



Is it really better though if Lee guts it out through the pain, and hits .209? IMO, this is a real problem, because a healthy Hoffpauir is better than an aching Lee, but because of the money invested and because Lee is a gamer, we won't maximize our productivity out of the position.

I would rather Lee get healthy and be 100%. I don't think he's been right though for awhile, and that's a problem.

Well nobody is happy when somebody in the team is injured, it makes you always worry about how the next game will be. I wonder if in exceptional cases sportsmen are allowed to use legal anabolic steroids for a full recovery before the game... Do you know anything about that?

Good news? I don't know what that means. And I respectfully disagree with you Q-Ball. Defense is forgotten sometimes because there's no good stat for it, but D is so important. I'd prefer to have Lee receiving Aramis's our 3B's sometimes wild throws.

Hoffpauir is actually very good defensively at 1b.

and he rakes to all fields and we shouldn't have guys get too used to throwing shit in the dirt. I've seen the infielders make their adjustments, anyway. Somehow, some way, Ramirez got the ball into D Ward's mitt just fine when Ward was at first.

Non issue. Although, I've mentioned it myself so not too be too hard on the original thought. I mean, it's a legitimate concern for maybe two weeks.

C Muskat is baack. Must have been away for a week.

a tiny bit more detail on DLee in that it was decided by the medical team and Dr Gryzlo that he didn't need an epidural cortisone injection for his neck since he was getting better.

Hank White was not available for comment.

Is Scott Eyre still broke?

We'll be saying this long after he's remade all his money.

This is good news.

A major injury might hurt his trade value.

HA HA...Too bad our fearless GM has given everyone and their brother a no trade clause. Lee is not going anywhere.

And like I have stated many times these guys need to get healthy, not just good enough to play (like I believe Lee and Soto are).

Yeah, Damn Hendry for personally creating the 10/5 rule that automatically gives Lee a no-trade clause.

Hendry gave Lee a full no trade clause in the contract Lee signed in April of 2006. It was BEFORE that 10/5 rule kicked in. DAMN those FACTS!!!

still couldn't trade him now though. He would also be getting more money now, which would make him more untradeable ...Hendry and Lee both said he took less money and less years for the NTC.

Oh yeah? Well... NUH-UH!


Edit: Blah nevermind.

I just realized I don't want to get into it.

Yes, Rob you are correct, they still couldn't have traded Lee without his permission, but the problem exists beyond Lee. I think there is like 10 players with no trades. That is an awful lot. I am pretty sure that is the most of any MLB team. It really ties your hands when you want to trade a player, but can't.

My understanding is that Soriano, Z, Ramirez have full NTC...along with Lee now. I'm not 100% sure on Samardzija and Fukudome if their full NTC's or with some stipulations.

I think Lilly has a partial no-trade idea on the may be full too for all I know.

Bradley and Dempster's NTC marked on the sidebar only last until June 15th or whatever date is for signing as free agents.

so like 10...but really 7...which I'm going to guess is not that absurd compared to other big market teams.

"My understanding is that Soriano, Z, Ramirez have full NTC...along with Lee now."

Lee already had a NTC, so you can drop the word 'now'.

"so like 10...but really 7...which I'm going to guess is not that absurd compared to other big market teams."

I went to Cots Contracts page and check a few top payroll teams: the Red Sox have 3 (Drew to 2 teams, Daisuke & Lowell), Yankees have like 10 and the Mets have 5. So the Cubs are likely higher than most, if not all, teams besides the Yankees. And to be honest, the Yankees contract/payroll situation is very unique, and not sure why the Cubs would have as many as the NYY. I just think it takes away lots of flexibility from the GM down the road at the end of the many expensive, long term, back loaded contracts Cubs players have.

Ortiz, Varitek, and Wakefield are all 10/5 guys and can't be traded either. If you are going to count Lee and Dempster for the Cubs, count those as well.

I am not counting Lee as a 10/5 guy, he had a no trade clause already built into his contract.

Then you need to go back and look at every contract for any current player that had a no-trade clause prior to his 10/5 rights kicking in. In fact, quite a few contracts have no-trade clauses for a limited time, such as 2-3 years, until the 10/5 takes over. Your point is stupid.

If you are complaining about why Hendry can't trade Lee NOW, you cannot blame the no-trade clause that is no longer in effect.

If you want to simply complain about Hendry giving out too many contracts with no-trade clauses, then fine, but that is also a stupid point.

I've done some graphs on this this morning that I will send to Rob, maybe he will post them. The number of no trade players a team has is almost entirely a function of payroll, and furthermore, teams with more no-trade players win more games (also likely a function of payroll). In other words, having a lot of these types of players means that you have been able to attract the best free agents and keep them, that you have a high payroll that allows you to do this, and that you are a competitive team year after year. You can keep whining about this if you want, or you can go root for the Nationals or Marlins, who have no no-trade players, or the Pirates maybe with only Jack Wilson.

WISCGRAD: "If you are complaining about why Hendry can't trade Lee NOW, you cannot blame the no-trade clause that is no longer in effect."

Actually I was just pointing out to kamokeefe that Lee couldn't be traded without his permission. As he was suggesting to get Lee healthy and trade him.

Actually, that is not at all what you were doing. If you were simply correcting kamokeefe and letting him know that Lee could not be traded you would have cited the relevant information, that he has 10/5 rights. Instead, you wrote this:

"HA HA...Too bad our fearless GM has given everyone and their brother a no trade clause. Lee is not going anywhere."

Which everyone on here (correctly) interpreted as you bitching about Hendry again.

Oh, I was definitely bitching about Hendry (easy and big target). But I was also trying to point out to him that Lee couldn't be traded (without his permission of course).

Yes, Lee did have a no trade clause for the start of his contract, and it was reasonable to assume that the Cubs would have no interest in trading him in the first couple years of the contract, and very reasonable to give up that right to trade him to save some money on the contract.

But I'm not sure how any of those facts (which weren't being questioned) are relevant since with or without that clause, he would still have No Trade rights today, and unless Hendry personally is responsible for the collective bargaining agreements, that's really not in his control.

Basically, what Rob G said.

It doesn't matter what the collective bargaining agreement says, Lee has a no-trade clause based on his contract that Hendry gave him. It doesn't matter if it was 10/5, 12/7 or 5/3. Lee has a no-trade clause just like many others on the roster.

geez, you really are a dumbfuck. everyone's explaining that Lee would have had a no trade for the last years of his contract due to the CBA, so there was nothing lost in Hendry giving him a no trade for the early years.

Fuck you, manny, you fucking idiot.

TCR at its finest...

Post of the year!

Wow, that's just a classicly great bit of manny-logic there.

Lee currently has a no trade clause because its part of the collective bargaining agreement that every player in mlb in his situation has one. That is the current situation and what applies to any current discussion, but you think that fact should be ignored because a couple of years ago, Lee had a separate no trade clause for the first couple years of his contract.

With logic like that, no wonder you hate hendry so much.

No, I don't think that should be ignored, but the fact that he had a no trade clause already meant the 10/5 clause didn't change anything as he already had the no trade protection. I guess maybe you can say the 10/5 reinforced it, but it didn't give him any extra privileges, or change his rights as a player, as he already had the no trade clause. The 10/5 provision, when it came to Lee and trade protection, meant nothing as he already had protection.

Wow. Just an amazing display of sophistry. Someone actually procreated with you?

Actually a stork just dropped me in. Or maybe it was a big egg like Mork. :)

with you.

My burn was harsher than you realize.

Ah, I did misread that. Thanks for the clarification.

It just shows you are even more classless than I thought. Taking shots at my wife is totally uncalled for. Yeah, it is only the internet from some nobody, but still that is way over the top. But if saying stuff like that makes you feel better...go for it!

I would hope the "writers" on this site could stop some of those types of harsh personal attacks. This one and Jumbo's are way over the top IMO. Oh well...

Yeah, it was probably a little harsher than it should have been. Your argument was just so astoundingly illogical that I honestly wondered what you must be like in real life, and if real people find you as exasperating as many of us here at TCR do. Still, that's not really an excuse to attack you personally. My bad.

And it wasn't meant as a burn on your wife at all really -- just you. Apologies to Mrs. MannyT.

Apology not accepted. Go Fuck yourself.

So your response to others being inappropriate is to act inappropriate as well. If you are going to attempt to take the high moral ground you have to stay on it...

I would hope the "writers" on this site could stop some of those types
of harsh personal attacks. This one and Jumbo's are way over the top
IMO. Oh well...

manny the victim, a tale as old as time. You'd be banned well before Andrew or Jumbo. You can't constantly provoke everyone with your asine comments and then be shocked when things escalate.

Say less stupid stuff and recognize when you say something stupid and not try to argue your way out of it and people won't attack you. Also try rooting for the Cubs...that might help.

That all being said, let's avoid the wife jokes Andrew...not cool. And Jumbo, you know what u did.

And if you don't like it manny (or anyone else)...go away.

Banned for what? Giving my opinion on the Cubs? Yeah makes sense!!

So if you say something stupid that is ok to get personally attacked because that is provoking? Ok, now I know the rules, I guess I will play by them too. We will see how fun things get around here...:)

And when you get personally attacked, without personally attacking someone first, then you are the victim. Pretty easy concept to understand, even for you Rob.

I am going to continue to give my opinion, good and bad of the Cubs, if people don't like it, don't read it. If you want to argue it in a civil way, I'm all for it. I am not some rosy blue Cubs fan. I am critical when they are bad, but more than praising them when they are good. Some people on here only remember the bad stuff I say about the Cubs. But luckily I don't have to prove to anyone here I am a Cubs fan.

Oh well, go internet!

"Ok, now I know the rules, I guess I will play by them too. We will see how fun things get around here...:)"

How old are you, 12?

The thing is, we've tried for years to argue with you in a civil way. You haven't done that since they started this place.

Your argument would only hold water if the 10/5 rule was created after Lee signed the contract.

The fact is that it was known by everyone involved that Lee would automatically get a no trade clause once he reached his service time requirements. There was no negotiation for the no trade protection that he currently has.

Any other no trade language that was written into the contract has now expired and is no longer relevant to the current situation.

The same would be true for ARam, Dempster, and will be true for Z and Soriano once they reach their required service time. And once again, that is important, because the time the Cubs would be most likely to trade any of these players is near the back end of their contracts.

There can certainly be a debate about when No Trade Clauses should or should not be given out, but your desire to use Lee's current situation as part of your attack on Hendry's use of them is just flat out silly.

6 degrees of separation?

Who invests in these kinds of...things? Like, who hears the spiel and says, "yes, I will help you market this with my moolah"????


I want to meet them so I can manufacture my United We Stand condoms.

That kind of looks more like Screech than Obama.

This is a little ass kissing for Rob G, but not cuz I need a bromance (I'm actually taken) but just cuz. So I am pasting from another post. I felt the need to say it on one of the earlier posts today, and to copy/paste it again. Just a little appreciation thang goin' on here, since the Cubs are nearing another death spiral:

-- snip
On other blogs I've been sort of ranting about the demise of newspapers and "where are those RSS news feeds gonna come from and who's gonna research and pay for finding out when city hall is corrupt and tell us the governor is a low life squeem boy??" blah blah.

But this fucking site is my main source of Cubs news. Not just for the flash so and so got traded that you get in the comments but for the detail in Wellman's, The Doctor's, and AZ Phil's reports.

Unbelievable shit, dudes.

-- end snip

Don't you think an article about how and if Cub fans are racists would be more useful than a boring ol article about actual Cub news?

It might be in September
/end sky is falling mode

I leeved in the bleachers my friend. The Only racists were that weere out there in those places were the ideeeyots who could not play right feeeeld, or who deeeedn't show up toooo play.

Not saying Milton qualifies yet for that last part -- but he's pushin it.


If you really like the place, consider  a donation of around $20,000 to contribute to our plan to buy a share of the Cubs.

sorry if i have missed this earlier: doctor cubster, if lee were your patient, how would you be treating him? especially since this is an injury that was caused (?) 2 seasons (?) ago? is 4 or 5 days out of the lineup going to change anything?

live well in peace.

how would you be treating him?
Treatment is usually based on the amount of pain (which is subjective) and the pattern of pain (where it localizes or radiates to). As this has been an episodic problem for quite a while now, previously he's probably used to routine treatments such as stretches and intermittent use of NSAID medication (non-steroidal). For short flare ups a corticosteroid medrol dosepak is often used (unrelated to the anabolic steroid category). It's a more potent anti-inflammatory but only used for a 6 day interval. Muscle relaxants are a consideration but they often leave one drowsy so this would be more short term as well. I'm sure the trainers are following physical therapy protocols. MerigoldBowling, as a physical therapist who treats athletes, could detail the specific approaches in therapy much better. Usually the focus is strengthening of specific muscle groups around the neck and shoulders. Massage, ultrasound, traction, iontophoresis and a few other modalities are options.

When these options aren't working, an epidural steroid or facet injection gets considered but they decided not to do this on DLee. One of the news links (above) mentioned because he was feeling better it was decided injections weren't needed at this point.

As long as he's not having radicular symptoms (and I've not read that he's having any radicular symptoms), meaning no pinched nerve symptoms that travel down into his arm (either numbness, pain or weakness)...surgical options usually aren't a consideration. Henry Blanco (two years ago) missed several months while his disc herniation with radicular symptoms was being treated with meds and therapy. Apparently it got close to making a decision on surgery for Blanco (which is usually a fusion technique) but his symptoms subsided and he recovered without surgery and had a good year in 2008. So symptoms can go away with (and sometimes without) treatment.

Bradley decision today or tomorrow (and DLee update with nothing additional being added)

Derrek Lee - the last year, season over season, May 1 2008 to May 1 2009 -->

.264 13HR 77 RBI

34 years old in September, chronic disc problem, clearly in decline yet still bats 3rd because he's supposed to be our best hitter

Signed through 2010, no trade (meaning Micah Hoffpauir would be 31 before he could get the starting job)

∴ We're screwed.

"We're screwed."

this is a 140m'll get over it.

technically he's batted 4th more than 3rd this year...

I know I feel better now.

Submitted by Rob G. on Tue, 05/12/2009 - 9:57pm.
Bradley and Dempster's NTC marked on the sidebar only last until June 15th or whatever date is for signing as free agents.


ROB G: Dempster is a 10/5, and Bradley has the automatic Article XX FA NTC through June 15th.

Dempster's been a Cub for 5 years? Wtf? How time flies...

easy and big target...
personally, I like donut jokes, much safer too.

Recent comments

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