In Hill's last outing he threw a complete game shut-out against these very Reds on 118 pitches, walking one while striking out ten, giving up only two hits and facing a mere thirty-one hitters. I'd call that a good game. A matter of fact if you go by Bill James's game score, it was the best pitched game this year along with a gem by Dontrelle Willis earlier in the year. It'll be tough for him to top tonight, so I expect nothing less than a no-hitter or a 20 K night out of the Michigan alum. This is the last road trip of the season for the Cubbies before a final adventure in the Friendly Confines to wrap up the season. Go Cubs! GAME ONE HUNDRED-FIFTY-FOUR IN-GAME DISCUSSION THREAD [PARACHAT] CHICAGO CUBS (62-91 (Draft) 3rd - 3.5 GB) AT CINCINNATI REDS (74-78 (Div) 2nd - 6.5 GB; (WC) 6th - 5.5 GB) The Great American Home Run Park, 6:10 pm CDT Weather: TV: CLTV, DirecTV 737 Radio: WGN, XM 186
Chris Michalak, LHP 1-3, 4.88 ERA, 27.2 IP 7 K, 11 BB, 4 HR 306/380/481 againstRich Hill, LHP 6-6, 4.12 ERA, 87.1 IP 73 K, 35 BB, 12 HR 227/305/408 against

*Juan Pierre, CF Ryan Theriot, 2B Aramis Ramirez, 3B Matt Murton, LF #Angel Pagan, RF Henry Blanco, 1B Ronny Cedeno, SS Geovany Soto, C *Rich Hill, P *Chris Denorfia, RF Brandon Phillips, SS Rich Aurilia, 1B Adam Dunn, LF Edwin Encarnacion, 3B David Ross, C Juan Castro, 2B Norris Hopper, RF *Chris Michalak, P

Cubs vs. Michalak: No Cubs with more than 10 AB'sReds vs. Hill: No Reds with more than 10 AB's


so how is scott moore going to learn to hit lefties by sitting on the bench when they pitch? i gotta have dusty walk me thru that one.

Hill is one of the few pleasant things to come out of this train wreck of a season. He gives me a bit of hope for the future -- he along with Murton, TheRiot, Moore, Mateo, and Wuertz among the kids, and among the vets, the blossoming of Barrett and Zambrano's continued growth into the elite ranks of starters. With these players, and a bit of luck, the 2007 Cubs may actually achieve mediocrity.

How about this for a crazy idea. Get Angel Pagan a 1st baseman's glove. Don't get me wrong, its nice to see Jones sitting vs. a lefty, but since Pagan is most likely going to be part of the Cubs bench next year, why not add to his versatility.

I don't have CLTV or WCIU so this week has been BS.

The NEW WB network started this week, didn't it? I think that's why the WGN games have halted, especially weekday night games. They didn't show a lot of weekday night games in April or May either I'm guessing. They'll be on tomorrow night, Monday afternoon, Friday afternoon, & Saturday afternoon next week on WGN.

Geez, Matt Murton batting clean-up for us vs Adam Dunn for the Reds. This would upset the Dusty-loving Murton bashers except they don't believe that lineups matter. However, they also tell us that the only real thing Dusty Baker is responsible for is filling out lineup cards. I mean, does Dusty Baker actually believe that Matt Murton is in the same league with Adam Dunn (even though Murt is having a better second half)? This is confusing. Damn Hendry!

CWTP: <i>"Damn Hendry!" You almost got it right, it should be: "FIRE Hendry!!</i>

CWTP, Don't beat around the bush. Just say Manny. Cause I am a Dusty lovin Murton basher and I believe that lineups matter and I believe that the manager is responsible for many things. And I'd trade away Matt Murton for Adam Dunn everyday.

Chad: <i>"Don't beat around the bush. Just say Manny." It can't be me, because about half those things don't fit me either.</i>

It was Opening Day today for the Arizona Instructional League, and the Cubs did not disappoint ol' Arizona Phil! Eight Cubs pitchers combined to throw a shutout as the Cubs defeated the Angels 3-0 at Fitch Park Field #3 this afternoon in Mesa. 2006 10th round draft pick RHP Jake Renshaw started and was unhittable, pitching two perfect innings with four Ks. LHP Darin Downs pitched one perfect inning with two Ks and looked very sharp, and 2006 19th round pick LHP Jeremy Papelbon (brother of injured Red Sox closer Jonathan Papelbon) had two Ks in his one inning of work. Big Jesse Estrada had control problems (HBP &amp; BB and behind on every hitter) closing the game in the 9th, however. Offensively, two Boise Hawks had outstanding days at the plate. 2006 #1 pick Tyler Colvin was 3-4 with a single, a double, and a triple, and 1B Russ Canzler had two hits, including a bomb over the left-field fence onto 8th Street, and a double smoked into the left-field corner. Tyler Colvin played CF, and it could be the Cubs want to see if he can handle the position. And the Arizona Instructional League is where these experiments can take place under minimum scrutiny. Watching him out there, Covin certainly has the speed and athleticism to play the position. I guess we'll have to see about his arm, but considering the fact that Juan Pierre plays CF with a rag arm, it may not matter all that much how well Colvin can throw. Also, Boise CF Matt Camp has been moved back to 2B (a position he played some in college at NC State). Given Camp's lead-off skills but lack of power, moving Camp to 2B in the Instructional League to see if he can handle that position probably makes a lot of sense. On the negative side, Ryan Harvey was 0-4 with two Ks and two pop-ups, and Yusuf Carter (Joe's nephew) struck out twice and popped out, and looked VERY bad (overmatched) in the process. Y. C. is also no longer switch-hitting (he hits right-handed only now). I don't know if he had stopped switch-hitting at Peoria, but this is the first time I have seen him since Spring Training. Kyle Reynolds (son of one-time MLB infielder Craig Reynolds) made three outstanding picks at 3B, and almost made a fourth that would have been worthy of Brooks Robinson or Graig Nettles. It would be nice if he could improve his hitting, though. All in all, a wonderful day at Fitch. As some of you know, the Arizona Instructional League brings many of the Cubs best prospects from Daytona, Peoria, Boise, and AZL Mesa to one place, where instructors work one-on-one with the guys to help them improve one or more aspects of their game. The Cubs AIL team will be playing a 19-game schedule over the next three weeks that features a game against Team China on October 11th. 2006 CUBS ARIZONA INSTRUCTIONAL LEAGUE SCHEDULE ALL GAME 1 PM start unless otherwise noted ALL GAMES at Fitch Park (Mesa) unless otherwise noted Sept. 22 Angels Sept. 23 Padres (10 AM) Sept. 24 NO GAME Sept. 25 at Angels (Tempe) Sept. 26 Dodgers Sept. 27 at Giants (Scottsdale) Sept. 28 Giants Sept. 29 at Rangers (Surprise) Sept. 30 Angels (10 AM) Oct. 1 NO GAME Oct. 2 at Brewers (Maryvale - NOON) Oct. 3 Brewers Oct. 4 at A's (Phoenix) Oct. 5 at White Sox (Maryvale) Oct. 6 at Padres (Peoria) Oct. 7 A's (10 AM) Oct. 8 NO GAME Oct. 9 Mariners Oct. 10 NO GAME Oct. 11 Team China Oct. 12 at Dodgers (Peoria) Oct. 13 White Sox Oct. 14 at Angels (Tempe - 9 AM) 2006 CUBS ARIZONA INSTRUCTIONAL LEAGUE ROSTER * bats or throws left # bats both <b>Pitchers</b>: <a href="http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Oscar%20Bernard&amp;pos=P&amp;sid=milb&amp;t=p_pbp&amp;pid=471082" rel="nofollow">Oscar Bernard</a> * <a href="http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Jerry%20Blevins&amp;pos=P&amp;sid=milb&amp;t=p_pbp&amp;pid=460283" rel="nofollow">Jerry Blevins</a> <a href="http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Marco%20Carrillo&amp;pos=P&amp;sid=milb&amp;t=p_pbp&amp;pid=456150" rel="nofollow">Marco Carillo</a> <a href="http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Julio%20Castillo&amp;pos=P&amp;sid=milb&amp;t=p_pbp&amp;pid=468500" rel="nofollow">Julio Castillo</a> <a href="http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Jose%20Ceda&amp;pos=P&amp;sid=milb&amp;t=p_pbp&amp;pid=469167" rel="nofollow">Jose Ceda</a> <a href="http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Greibal%20Cuevas%20novas&amp;pos=P&amp;sid=milb&amp;t=p_pbp&amp;pid=458736" rel="nofollow">Miguel Cuevas</a> <a href="http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Rafael%20Dolis&amp;pos=P&amp;sid=milb&amp;t=p_pbp&amp;pid=503569" rel="nofollow">Rafael Dolis</a> * <a href="http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Darin%20Downs&amp;pos=P&amp;sid=milb&amp;t=p_pbp&amp;pid=445153" rel="nofollow">Darin Downs</a> <a href="http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Jesse%20Estrada&amp;pos=P&amp;sid=milb&amp;t=p_pbp&amp;pid=453526" rel="nofollow">Jesse Estrada</a> <a href="http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Kitt%20Kopach&amp;pos=P&amp;sid=milb&amp;t=p_pbp&amp;pid=502267" rel="nofollow">Kitt Kopach</a> <a href="http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&amp;friendid=5685962" rel="nofollow">Kevin Kreier</a> (making pro debut) * <a href="http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Tim%20Layden&amp;pos=P&amp;sid=milb&amp;t=p_pbp&amp;pid=460259" rel="nofollow">Tim Layden</a> * <a href="http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Jeremy%20Papelbon&amp;pos=P&amp;sid=milb&amp;t=p_pbp&amp;pid=502533" rel="nofollow">Jeremy Papelbon</a> * <a href="http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Mark%20Pawelek&amp;pos=P&amp;sid=milb&amp;t=p_pbp&amp;pid=476263" rel="nofollow">Mark Pawelek</a> <a href="http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Jacob%20Renshaw&amp;pos=P&amp;sid=milb&amp;t=p_pbp&amp;pid=459451" rel="nofollow">Jake Renshaw</a> <a href="http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Rocky%20Roquet&amp;pos=P&amp;sid=milb&amp;t=p_pbp&amp;pid=503352" rel="nofollow">Rocky Roquet</a> * <a href="http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Jayson%20Ruhlman&amp;pos=P&amp;sid=milb&amp;t=p_pbp&amp;pid=453050" rel="nofollow">Jayson Ruhlman</a> <a href="http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Roberto%20Sotolongo&amp;pos=P&amp;sid=milb&amp;t=p_pbp&amp;pid=467158" rel="nofollow">Roberto Sotolongo</a> <a href=";hl=en&amp;gl=us&amp;ct=clnk&amp;cd=15&amp;ie=UTF-8" rel="nofollow">Larry Suarez</a> (making pro debut) <b>Catchers</b>: <a href="http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Matthew%20Canepa&amp;pos=C&amp;sid=milb&amp;t=p_pbp&amp;pid=501830" rel="nofollow">Matt Canepa</a> <a href="http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Jake%20Muyco&amp;pos=C&amp;sid=milb&amp;t=p_pbp&amp;pid=456989" rel="nofollow">Jake Muyco</a> * <a href="http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Mark%20Reed&amp;pos=C&amp;sid=milb&amp;t=p_pbp&amp;pid=461861" rel="nofollow">Mark Reed</a> <a href="http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Chris%20Robinson&amp;pos=C&amp;sid=milb&amp;t=p_pbp&amp;pid=460101" rel="nofollow">Chris Robinson</a> <b>Infielders</b>: <a href="http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Russell%20Canzler&amp;pos=3B&amp;sid=milb&amp;t=p_pbp&amp;pid=444453" rel="nofollow">Russ Canzler</a>, 1B * <a href="http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Steven%20Clevenger&amp;pos=SS&amp;sid=milb&amp;t=p_pbp&amp;pid=502182" rel="nofollow">Steve Clevenger</a>, 2B * <a href="http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Dylan%20Johnston&amp;pos=SS&amp;sid=milb&amp;t=p_pbp&amp;pid=489004" rel="nofollow">Dylan Johnston</a>, SS <a href="http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Joshua%20Lansford&amp;pos=SS&amp;sid=milb&amp;t=p_pbp&amp;pid=453341" rel="nofollow">Josh Lansford</a>, 3B * <a href="http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Kyle%20Reynolds&amp;pos=IF&amp;sid=milb&amp;t=p_pbp&amp;pid=460100" rel="nofollow">Kyle Reynolds</a>, 3B * <a href="http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Alan%20Rick&amp;pos=C&amp;sid=milb&amp;t=p_pbp&amp;pid=448697" rel="nofollow">Alan Rick</a>, 1B-C # <a href="http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Nathan%20Samson&amp;pos=IF&amp;sid=milb&amp;t=p_pbp&amp;pid=502688" rel="nofollow">Nathan Samson</a>, SS <a href="http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Joseph%20Simokaitis&amp;pos=SS&amp;sid=milb&amp;t=p_pbp&amp;pid=489319" rel="nofollow">Joe Simokaitis</a>, SS * <a href="http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Nate%20Spears&amp;pos=2B&amp;sid=milb&amp;t=p_pbp&amp;pid=460621" rel="nofollow">Nate Spears</a>, 2B <b>Outfielders</b>: * <a href="http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Clifford%20Andersen&amp;pos=OF&amp;sid=milb&amp;t=p_pbp&amp;pid=502122" rel="nofollow">Cliff Andersen</a> * <a href="http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Matt%20Camp&amp;pos=OF&amp;sid=milb&amp;t=p_pbp&amp;pid=501865" rel="nofollow">Matt Camp</a> # <a href="http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Yusuf%20Carter&amp;pos=OF&amp;sid=milb&amp;t=p_pbp&amp;pid=445175" rel="nofollow">Yusuf Carter</a> * <a href="http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Tyler%20Colvin&amp;pos=OF&amp;sid=milb&amp;t=p_pbp&amp;pid=502125" rel="nofollow">Tyler Colvin</a> <a href="http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Ryan%20Harvey&amp;pos=OF&amp;sid=milb&amp;t=p_pbp&amp;pid=458243" rel="nofollow">Ryan Harvey</a> <a href="http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Deryck%20Lewis&amp;pos=OF&amp;sid=milb&amp;t=p_pbp&amp;pid=453183" rel="nofollow">D. J. Lewis</a> * <a href="http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Andrew%20Rundle&amp;pos=OF&amp;sid=milb&amp;t=p_pbp&amp;pid=502025" rel="nofollow">Drew Rundle</a> <a href="http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Jeremy%20Williams&amp;pos=OF&amp;sid=milb&amp;t=p_pbp&amp;pid=503562" rel="nofollow">Jeremy Williams</a>

Manny, I know they don't apply to you but that's what people unduly attribute to you. So he was trying to say you but just wouldn't. I hate passive aggression.

Did Suarez make an appearance?

KRISH: Nope. I saw Renshaw, Kopach, Downs, Roquet, Ruhlman, Papelbon, and Estrada.

Chad: <i>"Manny, I know they don't apply to you but that's what people unduly attribute to you. So he was trying to say you but just wouldn't. I hate passive aggression." Oh I know, typical TCR bullshit. There are a few posters who do that shit, but hey if it makes them feel better, good for them.</i>

Cat calling the kettle black, there buddy.

"Cat calling the kettle black, there buddy." You mean pot. The pot calling the kettle black. The least you can do is get the phrase right.

lmao, we've always said cat.

Ryno- Can you give examples of when I unduly attribute things to other posters? Thanks!

You're complaining about some of the disrespectful things posters do, while you yourself are sometimes disrespectful. No I'm not going to find examples, you go find them.

AZ Phil: 1) Who was the catcher in today's game? I'm eager for your in person scouting report on catchers Reed and Robinson. 2) Have you seen Josh Langsford swing a bat yet? Can Kyle Reynolds hit or is he just a defensive prospect?

Ryno: <i>"No I'm not going to find examples, you go find them." I will get right on that...:) But I was complaining, if you even call that complaining, about being unduly attributed to things that I did not say or mean. Oh well...</i>

A Brendan Harris sighting!!! Too bad it was a HR...

#20 of 21: By Cubster (September 22, 2006 07:20 PM) AZ Phil: 1) Who was the catcher in today's game? I'm eager for your in person scouting report on catchers Reed and Robinson. 2) Have you seen Josh Langsford swing a bat yet? Can Kyle Reynolds hit or is he just a defensive prospect? CUBSTER: 1) Mark Reed started &amp; Cory Vanderhook came into the game in the 6th. Vanderhook almost hit a home run in the 8th, but it hit the top of the tall right-field fence and he had to settle for double. I saw Vanderhook (signed as a non-drafted FA out of Cal State - Fullerton in June) play quite a bit for AZL Mesa, and he is really the "field general" type, very intense and involved in the game from behind the plate. He seems to be quite a student of the game. 2) Lansford started at 3B and was replaced by Reynolds somewhere in the middle of the game (I didn't keep score, so I'm not sure which inning it was). I hadn't seen Lansford before, and he looks to be very patient hitter. He took a walk in one of his ABs. Reynolds was orginally a shortstop, and that's where I had seen him play before. But he played a lot of 3B at Peoria this season. And at least from what I saw of him today, he is one heckuva defensive 3B. He isn't much of a hitter, though, so if he can at least improve his hitting some, he could emerge as a AAA/MLB utility infielder somewhere down the road. The whole idea of the Instructuional League is to help young players and pitchers fix some of their shortcomings, so hopefully that will be the case with Muyco, Reynolds, Harvey, and Carter as far as their hitting is concerned. BTW, although he is not listed on the official Cubs AIL roster, Felix Pie played today. He was used as a "designated pinch-runner" twice (he had a SB and scored a run) and one other time as a PH (the rules are kinda informal, and players can shuttle in and out of the lineup if the manager wants to do that... sort of like a Little League game).

In a previous thread, someone indicated that they would be embarrassed if the Cubs "bought" a WS championship by signing a bunch of high priced mercinaries. I've heard this sentiment in the past and I have never completely understood it. Every year, the team pays certain players to play for them with the ultimate goal to win the WS. If the team does win the WS, why would it matter how high the payroll is? Personally, I respect teams like the Yankees and Red Sox who outspend other teams in pursuit of a championship. I respect the fact that they are using their revenues to reinvest in the team and I appreciate the fact that they seem to want to please their fans (customers). It's hard for me to understand any fan who says they are a Cubs fan while the payroll is at $100 million, but they would not be a fan if the Cubs doubled their payroll and brought in players that would give them the greatest chance of winning. To me, this would show that the team has a commitment to winning, not just to making money. As Cubs fans, I think we all want to see the team end the futility and win a WS during our lives. I'd welcome the team spending more money (even Yankee money) to build a team that could win a WS.

I think Cesar Izturis is giving Jose Guzman a run for his money as the worst-Cub-acquisition-connected-at-least-tangentially-to-Maddux of all time.

Theriot with 2 BBs tonite. God I love his game. Just pencil him in to the starting line-up at SS next year. They say speed doesn't go into a slump. They're right of course, but there's something else that also doesn't go into a slump (at least not for very long): a good batting eye. And of course he's also 11 for 12 in SBs. The best part? He makes $375,000!!!!

I think post #25 is the worst Maddux/Izturis connection-at-least-tangentially of all time. Not to mention that no matter what you think of Izturis we gave up nothing to get him.

I hope your pencil has an eraser.

Chad, what's the planetary status of Pluto?

#16 he smoked too much cat. We always called it cat.

The Cubs don't even need to spend $220 million, as someone alluded to. They could dominate the NL with a smart GM and a $130-140 M payroll. They'd better hurry though, because the Mets are headed there fast.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/boxscore?gid=260922104&amp;page=plays Look quickly at the above link before it's gone. Apparently Richie Sexson and Johjima were allowed to take on the Sox by themselves. Sexson had a hell of a 2nd inning. Johjima was allowed to hit for both teams.

WPZ: <i>"They could dominate the NL with a smart GM and a $130-140 M payroll. They'd better hurry though, because the Mets are headed there fast." But the Mets have done it with a payroll of $101 million. The Trib has given Hendry more than enough money to win with. He just hasn't spent it well.</i>

AZ PHIL: Thanks for the Fall League Report! Very informative. COREY PATTERSON WATCH: Latest stats - .269 .310 .425 .735 42 SB 7 CS 90K (down from 118 2005 total)

NO NO Watch: SD P Chris Young has a no no through 7 IP vs PITT. He has walked only one and faced the minimum.

E-Man: Thanks for the update, I haven't looked at his stats much since the AS Break when people were praising him for all his SB's (only 11 SB since AS Break). But it doesn't surprise me his stats are worse than even his 2004 stats with the Cubs. What a waste of supposed talent.

On to the 9th, Young still has the no no. This kid has some real good numbers the past 2 years.

DAMN!!!!!!!! Young gave up a PH HR with 1 out in the 9th.

DAMN!!!!!!!! Young gave up a PH HR with 1 out in the 9th. Guess that will make him OLD pretty quick. Hope he at least hangs on for the W. CPat wasted a promising career. I hope his brother makes it.

E-Man: <i>"Guess that will make him OLD pretty quick." HA HA Yeah he hung on for W. I just hope Cubs fans don't fall into the trap of falling in love with supposed can't miss prospects anymore, I know I won't.</i>

calling Detective Manny, Rob, Et. al.: I have read several articles by MLB clubs stating dates and announcing Tent. schedules. Can you/someone find a more comprehensive one for the Cubs?

they haven't released it yet, but you can get some guesses from other team's schedules. I know when we play the Cards, WSox and we start the season at Cincy again. someone's been piecing it together from other team's schedules, so here's the current rundown: http://www.bleedcubbieblue.com/story/2006/9/22/19645/0169 looks like Wsox, and @ Rangers so far in interleague

"#30 of 42: By WPZ (September 22, 2006 09:46 PM) #16 he smoked too much cat. We always called it cat." Nope, sorry. I don't care what you think it is or what you always said, the expression is "The POT calling the kettle black". Even a cursory Yahoo search has no finding of that expression. My wife swears that there is an expression, "Don't KICK a gift horse in the mouth". Still not an expression.

Tribune mentioning the Cubs interest in Vernon Wells. Tim Wilken has a liking for him since he brought him to Toronto. I would be more excited about him than just about anyone available. Get a lead-off 2b? and 2 SP and were good!

#30 Im still laughing my cat off. That was brilliant.

#43: Lighten up, mangled cliches are fun. I saw one somewhere this week: "like shooting duck in a barrel." ?? I think it's a mixture of "duck shoot" and "like shooting fish in a barrel." My extended family has come up with some doozies like "Sometimes the rottenest apple turns out to be the best in the barrel" and "The next time you talk to me, shut up!" (not technically a cliche but funny anyway) And speaking of bonkers, Murton for Adam Dunn (#8)? I hope you're kidding.

<i> Nope, sorry. I don't care what you think it is or what you always said, the expression is "The POT calling the kettle black". </i> I'm sure you'd also say the expression/kids game "Duck, Duck, Grey Duck" doesn't exist in your mind either? I will say, I've never heard the "Cat calling the Kettle Black" twist on the phrase. But it does work.

I don't think he's kidding Pell Mell, there's a reason why Dunn will make 10 1/2 mil this next year and why Murt, even in the FA market, wouldn't make anything close to that. Dunn is a HR threat every time he comes to the plate. Murton for Dunn is an easy upgrade, IMO. <i>Chad: Nope, sorry. I don't care what you think it is or what you always said, the expression is "The POT calling the kettle black". Even a cursory Yahoo search has no finding of that expression.</i> Thanks for the info, Chad. To think I've been wrong all these years...

<i>Pell Mell: My extended family has come up with some doozies like [snip] "The next time you talk to me, shut up!"</i> That's funny, I'm going to have to use sometime.

Theriot should be hitting leadoff, Pierre second...

RE MANGLED CLICHES: I have heard something like the following from Mike North, Chicago sports-talk personality: "So when it finally comes to FRUITITION..."

BEAT THE CARDINALS? Consistently? I personally look at the Cardinals as the Yankees of the NL. Since Whitey Herzog, I hardly remember more than a couple sub-par .500 seasons with those fucking Redbirds. To me, it is analagous to the Bears/Packers. It would be really refreshing to hear a new managerial hire state, "I want to first of all beat the snot out of the Cardinals every single year..." I've NEVER heard this from the last 4 or 5 managers that I can recall. Why is it thst a city of less than a million, with a similar or less payroll year after year NEARLY ALWAYS are sniffing at the pennant, division or wildcard? Does anyone have a decent explanation??

"Bashing" on TCR = "not agreeing with the consensus."

#44 of 51: By Dallas Green (September 23, 2006 02:16 AM) Tribune mentioning the Cubs interest in Vernon Wells. Tim Wilken has a liking for him since he brought him to Toronto. I would be more excited about him than just about anyone available. Get a lead-off 2b? and 2 SP and were good! -- DALLAS G: Acquiring Vernon Wells to play CF would also be a cheaper hit on the 2007 payroll than re-signing Juan Pierre. Wells makes $5.6m in 2007 and then can become a free-agent after the season, while Pierre would almost certainly be expected to receive somewhere between $7-9m per season in a multi-year deal. Of course, Wells would also probably cost the Cubs Matt Murton, Felix Pie, and a top pitching prospect (either Sean Gallagher or Donald Veal), and trading Murton &amp; Pie would mean that Hendry would almost have to go hot after either Alfonso Soriano or Carlos Lee to replace Murton in LF. The cost in '07 payroll of adding Wells and either C. Lee or Soriano (presuming either would get escalating salaries starting at $12-13m over four or five years) would probably be no less than about $18-19m, which is about what Ramirez and Pierre would probably cost in 2007 payroll. However, if Aramis Ramirez were to leave and be replaced in the lineup by Vernon Wells and either Carlos Lee or Alfonso Soriano (for instance), Hendry would probably also have to either sign a FA (Pedro Felix for instance) to replace Ramirez at 3B (and Feliz will probably cost somewhere around $7-8m per season on a three year deal), or else try to get by with "duct tape" at 3B in 2007 (maybe a Wes Helms/Scott Moore platoon). So Ramirez leaving could be the major determining factor as to whether Hendry would actively pursue Vernon Wells (instead of re-signing Pierre) and also either C-Lee or Soriano (to replace Murton, presuming Murton would be part of any deal for V. Wells), just because of the domino effect Ramirez leaving would have on both the Cubs 2007 lineup &amp; available '07 payroll. So which would you prefer in 2007? 1. Ramirez at 3B 2. Pierre in CF 3. Murton in LF PLUS: Pie (eventually) probably in RF or maybe in CF and Gallagher or Veal (eventually) in the starting rotation OR 1. Wells in CF for '07 (but could be a FA after 2007) 2. Soriano or C-Lee in LF (probably four or five year deal similiar to whatever A-Ram would have received) 3. Feliz (three years for maybe $24m) or maybe a W. Helms/S. Moore platoon at 3B And of course there is no certainty that Hendry could or would outbid other clubs and sign C-Lee or Soriano (or even Feliz) even if he wanted to do it. Hendry has proven himself to be far better at re-signing his own guys than signing free-agents who are on the open market.

I would prefer to have Wells, Soriano and Feliz next year, but it is really risky letting ARam get away without knowing for certain that Wells, Soriano and Feliz will be part of the team. If Hendry could be counted on to get the job done and to act like the GM of a major market ball club, then I'd say roll the dice. But if he's going to do what he's always done, then I don't have much faith that he'll be able to put all of the pieces together.

in response to a bunch of bs way up top... If the shoe fits, wear it. I wasn't singling out anyone at all. And I am a proud subscriber to mannytrillo's newsletter.

Bruce Miles hitting on all cylinders in his latest article... http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/beatwriters.asp?column=miles&amp;id=230164 He really pounds on the McPhail era... <i>The jury is out on recent drafts, but the Cubs got absolutely nothing as far as position players go in the 1995, í96, í97, í99 and 2000 drafts.</i> Thats pathetic. <i>Cubs record under MacPhail (1995-present): 912-1,006 Winning percentage: .475</i> <i>Cubs record the previous 12 years (1983-94): 925-963 Winning percentage: .490</i> We actually played better baseball before MacPhail, how sad is that? no dominant teams, as both of their playoff teams had to scrap until the end. That is the problem to me. All the Cubs teams built under the MacPhail era are designed to barely scrape buy on pure blind luck. And since none of the teams are built to be dominate they can never sustain any success. Thats why the Cubs will struggle to compete 1 year then go into a 3-5 year decline before struggling to a 88 or 90 win season again. It might be enough to make the playoffs, it might not. And once that little run is over, its back to the 3-5 year decline. Well, if you can call that a run. Also check out the football players we have drafted and our poor choices of #1 picks.

Hmmm this part was cut out, weird... <i>The scoreboard shows five seasons of winning records under MacPhail and seven losers, including those five 90-plus loss years. In 12 years, the Cubs have fielded <b>no dominant teams</b>, as both of their playoff teams had to scrap until the end.</i>

This little bit was amusing: <i>... and Matt Murton (drafted and developed by the Red Sox) looks like the real deal, if the Cubs know what to do with him.</i>

mcphail era is over...he's been nothing but a pencil pusher since hendry took reins 5-6 years ago. hendry was supposedly in line for mcphail's job, but hendry's scouting experience put him in line for the GM gig. why he chooses to call "til present" part of the mcphail era is kinda a stretch. he's not even around the "war rooms" come draft and trade time...his job is to peel money off the big bosses and keep paperwork straight. i mean...we gonna count the hendry era as when he came to the club in the early 90s or something? president and GM, unless doing the job of both, are two separate divisions even if the president has a great (or total in some cases) say of who gets to be GM. its slightly different organization to organization, but as much as hendry/mcphail may be boys, they're not doing the same job together even if they play blame in the same bed in the media.

#47: <i>I don't think he's kidding Pell Mell, there's a reason why Dunn will make 10 1/2 mil this next year and why Murt, even in the FA market, wouldn't make anything close to that. Dunn is a HR threat every time he comes to the plate. Murton for Dunn is an easy upgrade, IMO.</i> Obviously Dunn has a big power advantage over Murton, but Murton posted a comparable OBP to Dunn (.362 to .369) this year, even with his May-June slump. Murton also has decent-to-good speed and a greater potential to improve defensively than Dunn, and his services came $7,163,000 cheaper than Dunn's this year (and even cheaper next year given Dunn's impending raise). Dunn's career line of 246/381/516/897 is impressive, and I doubt that Murton will ever attain the power numbers Dunn achieves easily. I also don't know if CIN is actually looking to move Dunn or if this is just idle talk. But $10.5 million would be a lot of money to spend on an LFer for a Cubs team with many other holes to fill, especially given that they can get good, cheap production out of Murton.

For someone to have gotten off to such a booming start as Hendry - it just sucks that 2 years in a row the guy TOTALLY stunk it up other than signing Howry and Ehre - which unfortunately could only go so far as the team has now set the Cubs record for most relief innings pitched.

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